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  • Category: SmartCity

    Why is Kerala in to IT

    Hi Sir

    When we know that IT is not going to develop in Kerala then why is Kerala Going 4 it..
    We have lot many options..
    Kerala -popularly known as Gods own country can create wonders in tourism..
    If we r in to tourism we can make crores of money which is not possible thru IT.
    When God has given us such natural beauty then why r we not making use if it..
    If IT is the main source of income in other state.its not necessary that we should also go 4 it...
    If People like Achudanandhan still exist in our state...KERALA IS NOT GOING TO DEVELOP and
    SMART CITY WILL STILL BE A DREAM..

    Thank you
    Kavitha
  • #1731
    Oh, so we already know that IT is not going to develop in Kerala!!! May I ask why? Is there any curse due to which IT cannot enter Kerala? Karnataka's software exports is approximately 40,000 crores per annum. Can we generate even a fraction of that amount thru Tourism?

    So according to you, Tourism should be the mantra... But why only tourism? Let the tourism development also take place... But let IT also develop... That way people have more choices. The guys who want to make money by developing software can do that. The guys who want to make money by showing scenic places to foreigners, massaging them :)), serving them tea, drinks etc can to that too...

    When we see that our neighbours are doing well in IT and we have all that factors that can make us an IT power house, then why not give it a chance?

  • #1733
    IT is not meant for making money for the state only. It gives opportunity for people to work and nourish their life. The number of job opportunity what tourism gives can't compare with mass opportunity IT produces. And ofcourse IT is not the final manthra for the development of entire state. Few percentage can only get benefit from this "fruit". So it all means a fine rhythm of all kind of industries like Mechanical, Automobile, Agricultue, Chemical, tourism, education, health, media, IT etc. But for to make a concert with these instruments we need a good musician. A Visionery..But that's our curse...Still Achu, Pinangarayi, DICKers, Viswanathamenon , Kunjikutty kind of politicians are existing in society we can only dream this harmony..

  • #1737
    ------------
    Kerala -popularly known as Gods own country can create wonders in tourism..
    ------------------

    This is what I read in news papers while I was in kerala last month.
    In Alleppy one of the tourist groups (Taj If I am correct) was building a resort in the banks of Punnamadakayal(Where the famous boat race happens).They needed to dredge and reclaim a part of the lake to do the construction and they got all possible permissions from the govt.for that. When they started the work ,Unions opposed using machinery for that dredging and insisted on manual dredging and reclamation.
    The group estimated the number of years to complete the work manually is 8 times more using machines. Means 1 year completion deadline would extend to 8 Years....The company dropped the plan and the resort ended on paper. This is just a glimpse of what is going on in that sector.

    The prescription is a big change, IT is the only sector which can bring a paradigm shift in the attitude and once that flourish, other industries will automatically follow.

  • #1738
    yes kavitha
    we can pay our attention on the tourism and be a second thailand! that will solve one of our major problem that is jobelessness! we can make more redstreets in trivandrum, kochi and every where. it is sure that some conservatives will agitate against these projects also!. but we should understand that this is the last bus and how we can lost it!!!!
    best regards kavitha

  • #1740
    It is exactly the same impression me also got about this duplicate Ommen.
    I was thinking he can be a person sitting from dawn to dusk in those "kavalas' with a beedi and living as a parasite on some of the family member's sweat.Such guys don't want any form of developments regardless of the sector!!!

  • #1743
    Dear friends,
    Why are you so nervous and being hot!! I was supporting Kavitha and am not against her.
    I believe that what kavitha said was right. Tourism will bring with the jobs especially for young girls! If you are a conservative, I cant doanything! Your openion about this project may be not so good then I have no problem but don’t use the same language what you use in your house.

    i think It is very good for the development of tourism sector to appoint Kunchalikkutty, P.J kurian or Neelalohithasdasan nadar as tourism minister! Their well experience help us to develop into what you want!!
    Am I right guys?

  • #1744
    No Thariq,

    Letz not have Tourism, because that'll lead to prostitution.
    Letz not have "shining projects", because that'll lead to the exploitation of the working class.
    Letz not have hydroelectric projects, that'll lead to eviction of adivasis.
    Letz not have thermal/diesel projects, that'll lead to environment pollution.
    Letz not have agriculture, thatz encourage the feudal lords.
    Letz ban the real estate business, that'll teach the real estate mafia a lesson.
    Letz not have hospitals, that'll lead to the exploitation by the doctors.
    Letz not have schools/colleges. That'll lead to the commercialisation of education.
    Letz not have industries, that'll lead to the creation of multinational aka antinational companies.

    Thus, letz keep Kerala pure and pristine.

  • #1751
    We cannot consider the prostitution as an industry, so let’s name that tourism!
    We cannot exploit the working class directly, so let’s name that mass production!
    We cannot kill the innocent adivasis openly, so let’s bring with hydroelectric projects and we can exile them from our surroundings!
    We cannot reserve the education fully for rich class directly, so lets down the shutters of government institutions and make wide the sphere of self-financing collages!
    We cannot deny the right of getting treatment to the poor people, so let’s privatize the hospital industry and give them(owners) full freedom to do anything with their “private property”!
    We cannot victimize the 85% of population for the rest 15% rich class directly, so let’s proceed with the L.P.G
    We cannot sell our freedom and our natural sources to the multi national giants, so let’s consider the sources as commodities and welcome M.N.Cs to “develop our possibilities”!
    Bear in mind that we didn’t realize till now what are our possibilities but they (Multi nationals) realized and coming to us (for helping us!) but our approach is still conservative!!
    Then what can we do?

  • #1752
    :)))))))))

    This is where Thariq and his Solidarity want to take us to. No industries, no electricity, no agriculture, no decent hospitals...

    But ofcourse there will be govt hospitals whose maternity wards are open to both human beings and dogs :)) The best example of non-discrimination. About these govt hospitals, VS once commented when asked about going to London for a knee surgery: "evide chikilsichal ente kachavadam odungumennu karuthi alleyaaa" ...

    I was expecting one more remark from Thariq:

    "We cannot make our farmers toil in the fields just like that, so let’s consider eating food so that they'll toil to produce the grains."

    By the way why are you wearing the clothes of Omman? Are you ashamed of letting out these gems of wisdom in your own name? Man, you should be proud of these ideas...

  • #1753
    Dupl Ommen/Tariq..
    Your view point is highly commendable.Some senseless people will always object to such brilliant ideas.Poor folks won't understand your viewpoint.I have some very good solutions for all their absurd queries.

    Let all women wear Burqas and let them be inside the house.Sunlight also should be banned for them.So they won't get corrupted and also they won't get an opportunity to corrupt others.So issue #1 is solved.

    All the people should grow "kolukappa in their courtyard and have atleast 3-4 goats.
    They can daily have kolukappa with the milk.So the environmental/Hunger isssue is solved.

    Regarding industries Tell me one good reason why those should be there.

    About hospital why you want one ,when we have lots of adivasis with herbal medicines.

    Electricity??For what purpose?????

  • #1754
    Guys misunderstood me again!
    I'm not against you, but support your views "strongly"!
    Yea, the government hospitals are better examples for indiscrimination. its doors are opened for both human being and dogs! Then, lets not have any intention to improve its facilities and repair the dirtiness atmosphere.
    Because, only cultureless, uneducated and poor peoples are going to these hospitals. In our (capitalistic) concept they have no right to be considered as human being! Only human being have right to get treatment and those "wastes" should be destroyed completely!
    Hey friends, here in kerala some "poor" riches cannot go these dirty places, but getting treatment is one of their fundamental rights! So lets industrialize more the health sector!!
    And the 85% rest of population; you know they are uncreative, uneducated, cultureless and we have no need to them. So let them die all!!!
    In this way we can make a kerala without poor!!!

  • #1755
    Hey Thariq,

    Enough talks, get into action. You are worried about the plight of the govt hospitals, right? Why don't you Solidarity folks volunteer to clean up the govt hospitals? Does that sound disgusting??

    Omman chandy is not the only CM that Kerala had. During the last term, your favorite VS was in the ruling front. What did he do for the govt hospitals? Why did he fly to England for the knee surgery?

    You guys know only to shed crocodile tears for the poor.

    With your amazing ideas, you can create a Taliban style utopia, but please count the sensible people out.

  • #1759
    -----------------
    Guys misunderstood me again!
    ---------------------

    No yaar..Infact I was appreciating your view point. why you took it negatively..

    Let me paste from my earlier posting..

    -----------------------
    Your view point is highly commendable. Some senseless people will always object to such brilliant ideas. Poor folks won't understand your viewpoint. I have some very good solutions for all their absurd queries.
    -----------------

    See ..Now your doubts are cleared right. Actually the most revolutionary rulers of the recent past (Taliban) actually implemented these view points succesfully.They done just short of shooting all the women down. They made a heaven out of those terrain by relieving that area of all corrupting influences like women,industries,electricity,Hospitals,Agriculture etc etc.
    But alas, this capitalist imperialist US destroyed everything. We need to replicate that Taliban not only in kerala but through out India. That is the only way to save our country.

    This time also if you feel I misunderstood you, What can I do???

  • #1760
    Hi guys ....

    I think it would do gr8 for Kerala to get into IT. Tourism & Ayurveda have been advertised on a large scale + we've been listed on the National Geographic as one of the top 50 places that one must visit. I personally don't think we shud waste our energies there. I Work with a Placement Consultant in Mumbai and have noticed a very disappointing trend in recruitment from Kerala. Our Clients do not want candidates who have been educated in Kerala for fear of accent and grammatical errors in conversation and lack of confidence. Our students do not have an idea about future career prospects and they end up studying the same standard subjects like BCom, BA and such others. There are loads of other career opportunities and I think we shud have the reqd. career fairs and career counseling in schools and colleges to direct them. Student politics shud come to a stand still. Our students graduate at least 6 - 8 months later than the rest of India due to these politics and we end up as losers in the job market. Then the only option is to pay a huge amount and go the Gulf to work in a position that does not suit or go for higher studies as there are no options. We shud try and explore these areas. What do u all think ???

  • #1761
    Greeshma,

    I completely agree with you.
    In the name of social education they distroyed the quality in education and the student politics completed that rout.

    In India there is no value for graduation from kerala Universities.(Largely to NON-ENGG/MCA/NonIT like BA/BSc/Bcom).
    To great extend that is true too.If you comapre a BCom graduate from Bombay University and Kerala University,The difference is there on the wall.

    But the key question here is Why we all Malayalis forced to go to Mumbai/Bangalore/Hydbad/Chennai to find out jobs.Why can't we have enough industrial base in our own backyard to avoid this migration.Once we have our base and when Maharashtrians(in your posting context) come to kerala for a job look out we can mock at their accent!!!!.

    All our enegy should be focussed on that single Agenda--"Reforms and Development"

  • #1762
    Hi ... The accent isn't the problem here .... A gujarati has a very Gujju accent while speaking English and the same for the rest of India. Making fun of the Malayali accent isn't done. Where we shud improve is grammatical errors and the confidence to speak. Forget the accent !!! As for migrating to other states ... Kerala is not known for welcoming industries .... The opposition is just waiting for a chance to strike and create a general nuisance. U r right ... if we do have the infrastructure we wouldn't have to go anywhere else ... but that's just what we are lacking. Entrepreneurship shud be another avenue to be explored. The trend is if the dad has a business ... its party time for the children ... they just have to continue with what's been given to them and that is tough too. What we shud try and do are promote self starters. Give them the financial backing, the right atmosphere and not workers who would strike every other day b'coz their demands aren't met. The MAharashtra Govt. has levied a fine on any party that instigates a strike or bandh. I guess that shud be implemented in Kerala.

  • #1763
    “You are worried about the plight of the government hospitals”
    No sir,
    I’m worried about those “poor” rich people! They have no enough facilities to live here in kerala. Their children have no enough nice institution to study! Have they any polite shopping center when they want purchasing?! No, everywhere these cultureless, uneducated people for disturbing them.
    Once malayala manorama (the only newspaper which take care of this poor rich) introduced a new project about a golf course in kerala. But the conservatives were not ready to take it for even discussion! If it had been reality, it should have been a consolation to these “poor”!
    Do you know how much difficulties they are facing to spend their leisure time?!!!
    Their condition is very pitiable!
    So, I’m not worried about those lazy, uneducated people but pitied about these “poor”!

    At last, Hpite realized me!!
    Thank god!
    But he uttered “some” nonsense. I think it is because lack of reading newspaper.
    He says:
    “But alas, this capitalist imperialist US destroyed everything”
    Who said you America is imperialistic?!
    They are very “poor” dude! How much trouble in front of them in the way of spreading democracy all over the world!
    How they proceed their endless struggle against terrorism?!
    For whom they are doing that? For us, for the whole world to save the mankind from these radical terrorist groups!
    More than 100000 terrorists had been killed after started the war on Iraq. Some of them were very dangerous like 3 years old falih aziz who killed before two weeks!
    Some terrorist conferences had been attacked by them but the media reported that was just wedding ceremony!!
    America is really a divine gift to the mankind!
    Then, how can you say they are imperialists! Even the god will not forgive you!

    You have some stereotypical ideas about Taliban! How you can blame those “poor” also! They are from the same genus which America (The only one god!) includes!

  • #1764
    :)))

    When asked to act instead of talking, Thariq changes his plate. He's putting all irrelevent things into picture.

    What is the problem if some rich people construct shopping complexes, golf courses etc with their own money for their own enjoyment?? What is the problem if they send their kids to good institutes with their own money? I don't understand what is solidarity/govt has to do here if they are not asking for any govt funding? If u and I cannot afford it let's not go there. Why insist that "I can't reach the grapes, so the grapes are sour. Let's destroy the sour grapes"??

    "Nammukku kittattatu aarkkum kittanda"... Is that your principle, Thariq?

  • #1765
    “What is the problem ……….?”
    Nothing, especially when these types of “developments” cause exiling hundreds of peoples from their birth place. Because they have no right in our capitalistic concept and these cultureless, uneducated masses are really useless burden on the community!

    “What is the problem if some rich people construct shopping complexes?”
    Nothing, when one shopping complex comes in to a town, it causes to down the shutters of hundreds of small shops in the nearby villages. Let them all die because they are human being only in the existing meanings! in our dictionary they are not more than worthless dogs!

    “What is the problem if they send their kids to good institutes with their own money”
    When the education become private property and when it reserved for 15% of the whole community our mind will not be agitated! Because the 15% have only the right to get the education, the rest 85%, they are as we said useless bastards!

    In the case of golf course, it is understandable to turn against it when it was with their “own” money for their own enjoyment! But I cannot understand that why these conservatives against it when the government spend time and money for it!
    They really don't know what the real purpose of the government is in a capitalistic society!

  • #1766
    >>Nothing, especially when these types of “developments” cause exiling hundreds of peoples from their birth place.
    ----------

    This is the most ridiculous arguments that I've ever heard. fyi, I'm one of those peoples who are "exiled" from my birth place. But it is not because of the developments, on the contrary, because of the lack of it. I'm not alone here in Bangalore. Also ask the expatriates who've gone to the Gulf countries...

    >>Nothing, when one shopping complex comes in to a town, it causes to down the shutters of hundreds of small shops in the nearby villages.
    --------

    Q) Why do the small shops close?
    A) Because people go to the shopping complexes to buy things.
    Q) Why do people go there?
    A) Because they get better quality things at a cheaper price.

    You cannot make the entire society poorer to make those small shop keepers richer, artificially. If the shop-keepers cannot sell competitively, they have to move on to a field where they can produce things competitively. It could be agriculture/manufacturing/construction or anything. Just one example: What is the cost of a dining table/cot(Or any furniture in general)? It is astronomical. Assume that one such small time shopkeeper who had to close his shop enters into this business and utilizes his skills to manufacture the furnitures at a cheaper rate. What is the effect? He makes profit for himself. Also the entire society gets furniture at a cheaper rate. This is a win-win situation for both. It makes the entire society richer.

    If the society had fallen for the mercy factor and didn't allow the shopping complex, then they'd still have bought the lower quality commodities from the shop keeper and also bought the furnitures at a higher price. Because of allowing this shopping complex, the society is getting more satisfactory products at the same/lower price. Also, since it displaced those shop-keepers, they are forced to think about the avenues that can give them profits. It inturn led to the society getting cheaper furniture. Therefore the net effect is that the society becomes richer.

    >>Let them all die because they are human being only in the existing meanings! in our dictionary they are not more than worthless dogs!
    -----

    If one is not capable of doing anything then he/she has to live on charity. Charity is not anybody's right. It is a favor from the productive ones to the unproductive.

    >>When the education become private property and when it reserved for 15% of the whole community our mind will not be agitated! Because the 15% have only the right to get the education, the rest 85%, they are as we said useless bastards!
    -------------

    When some rich people send their kids to private institutes, it is not at the cost of govt schools. Nobody's asking the govt to close the govt schools. But it is an individual's right to decide where he should send his kids. If he's unhappy with the govt school, he might decide to send his kids to a private 5 star institute. That's his personal choice. I don't understand what is Thariq's problem there!!!!

    >>But I cannot understand that why these conservatives against it when the government spend time and money for it!
    --------

    I'm not aware of this.. However I agree with you that the govt money is not to be squandered on such projects...

    What I don't understand is: Why is Thariq masquerading as Omman Chandy? Is this a disease akin to transvestism?

  • #1767
    "This is the most ridiculous arguments that I've ever heard"

    Yes, "development" causes exiling hundreds of people. This is not a political myth, but the material fact. That’s why the sociologists classify them (the exiled people from the life) as "PAP" (project affected people).
    These PAP agitated against Mavoor Gwalior Rayons and had thrown out them from their surroundings!
    The same PAP continues their struggles against Karimugal Carbon Factory, Plachimada coco cola company, kanchikode Pepsi, spraying the insecticide Endo Sulfan and so and so….

    They agitates not because of the lack of "development" or of fear to be exiled into Banglore or Gulf countries! But to get their fundamental right to live in their birth place. In our capitalistic concept, may be they have no right to live but the "conservatives" are not like us!

    The same problem occurs in the case of shopping complex also. What can we do if of the conservatives don’t want the "PAPization" of a big majority! For that reason they resists the politics of exiling and victimization. For the same reason they consider the ideology of victimization as a vulgar word.

    " they have to move on to a field where they can produce things competitively."

    The first thing has to be changed that the psychology of competition. Mankind expect from an ideal ideology is to consider them as a whole one not hatred omitting opponents.

    " Charity is not anybody's right. It is a favor from the productive ones to the unproductive".

    This concept of favor must be changed also. Even though how the preparedness to help others can develop in a competitive, selfish, capitalistic society?

    " When some rich people send their kids to private institutes, it is not at the cost of govt schools "

    In 2001, among the M.B.B.S students in kerala, 87% of them were from the 9% of HIG and UMIG categories. Where is here the equality which our constitution exists on?
    We have to do something for decreasing this dreadful proportion. But the privatization of the education sector causes increasing more the inequality between the haves and have-nots.

    " I'm not aware of this.. However I agree with you that the govt money is not to be squandered on such projects.."

    Thank god!!

  • #1768
    >>They agitates not because of the lack of "development" or of fear to be exiled into Banglore or Gulf countries! But to get their fundamental right to live in their birth place. In our capitalistic concept, may be they have no right to live but the "conservatives" are not like us!
    -------------

    Displacement of people is inevitable for any kind of development (Whether it is capitalist system or socialist). Even to construct a road or railway, many people will have to be displaced. But the govt should take care that these people are not victimized. Ie, they have to be compensated adequately according to the market price of their property. If this is not happening then people have to fight to get the deserving compensation for the property thus acquired; not against displacement. If everybody clings to their birth place then there can't be any road or railways or any infrastructure in general.

    >>The first thing has to be changed that the psychology of competition. Mankind expect from an ideal ideology is to consider them as a whole one not hatred omitting opponents.
    -----------

    That's your expectation. But don't think that it is the same with the mankind. Man is individualistic in nature, not collectivistic. As long as there are varying abilities and varying level of creativity among people, they cannot be considered as a whole. For example, given the same field and same facilities, one guy might produce 10 measures of rice, another might produce 1 measure of rice and a third person might produce nothing. No body in the world has the right to snatch what the first guy has produced and give half of it to the third guy. Every person has the right to enjoy the fruits of his labor. He's not obliged to share it with anybody. To share or not is his personal choice. Not obligation. It would be a mockery of his productivity to force him to share the products of his labor with the other.

    >>This concept of favor must be changed also. Even though how the preparedness to help others can develop in a competitive, selfish, capitalistic society?
    ----------

    The choice that you have is between expropriation and inequality. To bring equality, you have to expropriate wealth from the more productive and distribute it to the less productive. If you do that, eventually the more productive will become less inclined to produce more (Because either way, their earning will be the same). This will eventually bring down the production of the whole society and make it poor. How many socialist countries did we have in the world? In fact in the 70s, more than half of the world was socialist. Can you show me even a single success story?

    >>In 2001, among the M.B.B.S students in kerala, 87% of them were from the 9% of HIG and UMIG categories. Where is here the equality which our constitution exists on?
    -------------

    As long as there is no equality in skills and productivity among people, it is irrational to demand that there should be equality in wealth. Nehru was a socialist. And the constitution that his govt drafted was by and large a socialistic one. This socialism took us to the verge of an economic collapse in 1990. In the post Rao era, the constitution is no longer a socialistic one.

  • #1772
    “Displacement of people is inevitable for any kind of development”
    Ok, but displacement of whom? For whom this displacement takes place? They are exiling the poor majority for the favor of a very micro minority. Its benefits will get by the rich and all the difficulties and troubles should be bear by the downtrodden classes.

    “But the govt should take care that these people are not victimized. Ie, they have to be compensated adequately according to the market price of their property. If this is not happening then people have to fight to get the deserving compensation for the property thus acquired; not against displacement”
    Are you living outside of our governmental experiences? From which government you are expecting this? What was our experience with the Cochin airport victims? Have you known about any types of struggles they have been conducted? Our mainstream political parties and media disregarded their issue with a condemnable impudence. When they started their struggle for getting their rights, who did blame them as lazy, don't like to work but struggle only?

    “That's your expectation. But don't think that it is the same with the mankind”
    No one denies that there is an inner instinct of self-love in the man. But the question is how can the inner instinct of self-love be directed in a proper manner? Which way will bring the social peace to the community?
    Capitalism unfastens all ties on an individual and let him to do anything which brings him any type of benefit. It teaches him he has not any responsibility on the society. You are trying to theorize these vulgar thoughts in the name of individualism.

    “Man is individualistic in nature, not collectivistic”
    As I said, there is an instinct of self-love in him, but it is not a license to trampling society’s rights. On the contrary, this inner instinct must be lead along the right path.

    “Every person has the right to enjoy the fruits of his labor”
    Ok, but here, in capitalistic hells, not the real profit makers enjoy the fruits of labor. But a micro minority exploits their skills and gives them a very insignificant part of their huge profit which gained because of hard efforts of these labors. So there is no freedom to enjoy the fruits of “his own” efforts in capitalism. But only cheating and exploitation there because “man is individualistic in nature and the distribution of the wealth equally is contrary to his natural behavior”!

    “The choice that you have is between expropriation and inequality”
    To bring equality, if the expropriation is obligatory, it should be done. I don't mean the mathematical equality but there will not be any human being unable to fulfill his fundamental needs (food, treatment, home, education……………..)

    “As long as there is no equality in skills and productivity among people, it is irrational to demand that there should be equality in wealth”
    What was my question?
    You are answering for what?
    I said that there is no equality in opportunities to get education in our country. This is clearly opposite to our constitution. You only underline that there will not be equality in wealth!
    Yes, now, with us there is a terrible inequality in wealth distribution. Besides this there is no equality in opportunities in different sectors. This situation should be changed or not? Answer to this question and leave the methodology of “ariyethra payaranchazhi”

    “This socialism took us to the verge of an economic collapse in 1990. In the post Rao era, the constitution is no longer a socialistic one”
    Have you ever read our constitution? It begins with:
    “We, the people of India having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a sovereign socialist secular democratic republic”
    Your statement is a strong evidence to consider you as a seditionist and rebel to our country. There is no different between one who challenge the secularism or democracy and one who challenge the socialism. Socialism is one of the foundation stones of our constitution like secularism or democracy. So parliament denied to an appeal to remove the word ”socialism” from the constitution. I think the appealer was ridiculing our development culture. Is this not sympathetically to turn every importance of the state to the micro minority rich class in a “socialist” country!!??

  • #1773
    “Displacement of people is inevitable for any kind of development”
    Ok, but displacement of whom? For whom this displacement takes place? They are exiling the poor majority for the favor of a very micro minority. Its benefits will get by the rich and all the difficulties and troubles should be bear by the downtrodden classes.

    “But the govt should take care that these people are not victimized. Ie, they have to be compensated adequately according to the market price of their property. If this is not happening then people have to fight to get the deserving compensation for the property thus acquired; not against displacement”
    Are you living outside of our governmental experiences? From which government you are expecting this? What was our experience with the Cochin airport victims? Have you known about any types of struggles they have been conducted? Our mainstream political parties and media disregarded their issue with a condemnable impudence. When they started their struggle for getting their rights, who did blame them as lazy, don't like to work but struggle only?

    “That's your expectation. But don't think that it is the same with the mankind”
    No one denies that there is an inner instinct of self-love in the man. But the question is how can the inner instinct of self-love be directed in a proper manner? Which way will bring the social peace to the community?
    Capitalism unfastens all ties on an individual and let him to do anything which brings him any type of benefit. It teaches him he has not any responsibility on the society. You are trying to theorize these vulgar thoughts in the name of individualism.

    “Man is individualistic in nature, not collectivistic”
    As I said, there is an instinct of self-love in him, but it is not a license to trampling society’s rights. On the contrary, this inner instinct must be lead along the right path.

    “Every person has the right to enjoy the fruits of his labor”
    Ok, but here, in capitalistic hells, not the real profit makers enjoy the fruits of labor. But a micro minority exploits their skills and gives them a very insignificant part of their huge profit which gained because of hard efforts of these labors. So there is no freedom to enjoy the fruits of “his own” efforts in capitalism. But only cheating and exploitation there because “man is individualistic in nature and the distribution of the wealth equally is contrary to his natural behavior”!

    “The choice that you have is between expropriation and inequality”
    To bring equality, if the expropriation is obligatory, it should be done. I don't mean the mathematical equality but there will not be any human being unable to fulfill his fundamental needs (food, treatment, home, education……………..)

    “As long as there is no equality in skills and productivity among people, it is irrational to demand that there should be equality in wealth”
    What was my question?
    You are answering for what?
    I said that there is no equality in opportunities to get education in our country. This is clearly opposite to our constitution. You only underline that there will not be equality in wealth!
    Yes, now, with us there is a terrible inequality in wealth distribution. Besides this there is no equality in opportunities in different sectors. This situation should be changed or not? Answer to this question and leave the methodology of “ariyethra payaranchazhi”

    “This socialism took us to the verge of an economic collapse in 1990. In the post Rao era, the constitution is no longer a socialistic one”
    Have you ever read our constitution? It begins with:
    “We, the people of India having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a sovereign socialist secular democratic republic”
    Your statement is a strong evidence to consider you as a seditionist and rebel to our country. There is no different between one who challenge the secularism or democracy and one who challenge the socialism. Socialism is one of the foundation stones of our constitution like secularism or democracy. So parliament denied to an appeal to remove the word ”socialism” from the constitution. I think the appealer was ridiculing our development culture. Is this not sympathetically to turn every importance of the state to the micro minority rich class in a “socialist” country!!??

  • #1774
    >>Ok, but displacement of whom? For whom this displacement takes place? They are exiling the poor majority for the favor of a very micro minority. Its benefits will get by the rich and all the difficulties and troubles should be bear by the downtrodden classes.
    --------------

    This takes us back to the basics of production. Let us take the case of the basic necessities of the people - Food, clothing and shelter. To produce food, say paddy, you need tractors. To transport the food grains, you need trucks. To produce tractors/trucks you need the industrial units. For clothing, you need mills like Gwalior Rayons. To produce shelter, you need cement, bricks, steel etc. You need to produce even those in the industrial units.

    Of course, all these industries are owned by the rich. To the person who sees things superficially, these industries are benefitting only the rich. So what happens if all the poor cling to their properties and do not move so that these industries can come in? The machinaries required for production will not be produced. Then the production of food, clothing and shelter will fall. That'll increase their price making them unreachable to the poor. The result is that the society will become much poorer.

    You can take any such industry and analyze who are the beneficiaries. Take software industry for example. What are the softwares used for? To automate the production and make it more efficient, there by enhancing it by leaps and bounds. So what is the effect? Because of the enhanced production, the commodities become cheaper making them affordable to the common man. So, ultimately who are the beneficiaries? Is it just industrialists like Bill Gates, Tata, Reliance etc? No, the entire society.

    >>Are you living outside of our governmental experiences? From which government you are expecting this? What was our experience with the Cochin airport victims? Have you known about any types of struggles they have been conducted? Our mainstream political parties and media disregarded their issue with a condemnable impudence. When they started their struggle for getting their rights, who did blame them as lazy, don't like to work but struggle only?
    ----------------

    I never said that our government is a perfect one. If the government is violating our rights then we have to fight against the govt. If the govt is acquiring anybody's property without compensating properly, then what the govt is doing is nothing but plunder. That's what I said in the previous posting that people have every right to fight for deserving compensation, but not against displacement.


    >>No one denies that there is an inner instinct of self-love in the man. But the question is how can the inner instinct of self-love be directed in a proper manner? Which way will bring the social peace to the communitycz
    Capitalism unfastens all ties on an individual and let him to do anything which brings him any type of benefit. It teaches him he has not any responsibility on the society. You are trying to theorize these vulgar thoughts in the name of individualism.
    ----------------

    This is not right. Capitalism allows an individual to do anything which brings him any type of benefit as long as it doesn't encroach into anyone else's rights. The way capitalism directs self-interest in a proper manner is by promoting trade for mutual benefit. When I buy clothes from Raymonds, the Raymond factory owners make profit. At the same time I enhance my materialistic well being. This is called trade for mutual benefit. In this trade, both Raymonds and I got benefitted. On the contrary, if I robbed cloths from Raymond, I gained, but Raymonds lost. The same way if Raymonds robbed me of money then Raymonds gained but I lost. Both these are Win-lose scenarios and both are anti-capitalist activities.


    >>As I said, there is an instinct of self-love in him, but it is not a license to trampling society’s rights. On the contrary, this inner instinct must be lead along the right path.
    --------------------

    As I said, capitalism doesn't support making gains by trampling others rights. The self-interest is directed towards working for mutual benefit. When I work for a capitalistic company, the company is not doing any favor to me by giving me a job. They employ me because of my productivity. The same way, I'm not working for them for charity. I work because of the salary that they pay me and the job satisfaction that I get out of the work.

    >>Ok, but here, in capitalistic hells, not the real profit makers enjoy the fruits of labor. But a micro minority exploits their skills and gives them a very insignificant part of their huge profit which gained because of hard efforts of these labors. So there is no freedom to enjoy the fruits of “his own” efforts in capitalism. But only cheating and exploitation there because “man is individualistic in nature and the distribution of the wealth equally is contrary to his natural behavior”!
    ---------------------

    This is not true. In a capitalist company, no one forces anyone to work for them. The moment one feels that he's getting exploited, he can quit. And if he has the capability, then he can start his own company and compete with the parent company. So there's no exploitation. I work with a software company. The company is selling the software that we develop for millions of dollars. So, am I getting exploited? No. Because, development is only one part of it. The main thing is the credibility of the product vendor. The customers will buy the software from my company, because of the company's credibility. The moment I feel that I'm being exploited, I'm free to quit and start my own company. The same applies to every one.

    >>To bring equality, if the expropriation is obligatory, it should be done. I don't mean the mathematical equality but there will not be any human being unable to fulfill his fundamental needs (food, treatment, home, education……………..)
    ----------------------

    This is the point that I've already answered. Assume that one person produces 10 measures of rice, second one produces 1 measure and the third person produces nothing. Assume that each person requires 3 measures of rice to fulfill his fundamental needs. Then you'll expropriate 5 measures of rice from the first guy and give 2 to the second guy and 3 to the third guy. Now the first guy has put in effort equivalent of 10 measures of rice, but he's getting only 5. That reduces the incentive of the first guy to produce 10. So eventually he produces lesser, say 9. Meanwhile the second guy sees that if he produces 1 then the govt gives him 2. So if he produces lesser, the balance will be compensated by the govt. So even he starts producing lesser, say 1/2 measures of rice. So now more rice has to be expropriated from the first guy. ie, he produces 9 and you expropriate 5 1/2 leaving him only 3 1/2 measures.

    This vicious circle will continue until the society is totally impoverished and finally this system will collapse.


    >>What was my question?
    You are answering for what?
    I said that there is no equality in opportunities to get education in our country. This is clearly opposite to our constitution. You only underline that there will not be equality in wealth!
    ------------------

    Dude, these are all interconnected. Where does the funds for the free education come from? From the tax collected from the productive citizens. If you don't allow the industries to come, the opportunity for the citizens to work productively reduces. Proportionately, the tax collected also reduces. Proportionately, the funds for free education also reduces. Then how can there be equality in opportunities?

    >>Yes, now, with us there is a terrible inequality in wealth distribution. Besides this there is no equality in opportunities in different sectors. This situation should be changed or not?
    -------------------

    Answered just above.

    >>Have you ever read our constitution? It begins with:
    “We, the people of India having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a sovereign socialist secular democratic republic”
    Your statement is a strong evidence to consider you as a seditionist and rebel to our country. There is no different between one who challenge the secularism or democracy and one who challenge the socialism. Socialism is one of the foundation stones of our constitution like secularism or democracy. So parliament denied to an appeal to remove the word ”socialism” from the constitution. I think the appealer was ridiculing our development culture. Is this not sympathetically to turn every importance of the state to the micro minority rich class in a “socialist” country!!??
    ---------------------------------------------

    Hello... we are not living in a fascist society. I'm constructively criticizing certain irrational aspects of our original constitution. Not waging any gurella war. I have my freedom of expression. Any body is free to challenge my points logically. If I'm convinced, I'll accept it. Else I'll reject it. The question is not whether it is the secularism that is challenged or socialism. The question is whether the arguments of the appealer makes sense.

    For a sustainable development culture, the basic requirement is a rational mind and the humility to accept mistakes and correct them rather than clinging to the mistakes by appealing to the nationalistic sentiments. And so far in any of my postings, I've never appealed to the sympathy factor. I've only appealed to logic/rationality.

  • #1776
    >>But a micro minority exploits their skills and gives them a very insignificant part of their huge profit which gained because of hard efforts of these labors.
    ----------------

    This is a point that I've answered earlier too... Please don't repeat the same points again and again. You are free to contradict my answers, but don't repeat the same point. Let me copy and paste from the previous post.

    Q) What happens when a company gets huge surplus value from their workers efforts?
    A) It attracts more industrialists into this business because of its profitabililty. This enhances competition in this business. The competition promotes a price war. The price war brings the price of the commodities down to the marginal cost of production thereby making it affordable to the common man. You can see umpteen examples around you.

    Also, when there are more competing companies in the same business, the negotiating power of the employees increases significantly. They can quit their present company and join a competing company for higher wages. Also each company will try to retain the talented employees by paying them higher wages. They can also start their own company if they are capable of that.


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