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  • Category: SmartCity
    Points:1

    Do you want those political bugs to decide your salary.

    Guys how many of you think you need political/union support in you work place to bargain your salary . ..
    I think i dont need any ones. I am capable enough to bragain my salary and if the current emplyer is not paying me what i deserve i would move on. find one, who can afford me. I dont want a chotta neta ( congress (a....z), dick , cpm/i, bjp.. terrorists. ) to decide on that, who will be feeding on my hard work then onwards. !!!
  • #1638

    Points:1
    Naveen,
    I completely agree with you that none of these political class should be there to bargin our salaries.But ,But But now read the remaining..
    I am not sure how long you've been working in this sector.
    If you are in this ring for last 5 years you might be knowing the job market during 2001-2003.

    Now I will tell you one real time story.I was with TCS ( I don't think revealing the name violates any policies ,coz this is a true incident) during the down turn period of 2001-2003.
    In TCS ,major chunk of the salary is from the component called Variable allowance.This links to the company's targets and some other parameters which are unknown to the employees.
    In the year 2003 they crossed 1 billion,But in the name of not meeting the set targets they reduced the Variable allowance component heavily.This they have done across the board.In reality why they done that is ,they were damn sure that since the job market is down,even if they reduce the salary\ies most of the employees won't be having any other option than to stay back.Their assumption turned true aswell.People were interested to go out but unable to do do coz of teh sluggish market.The same company revised the variable allowance once the job market became up again.They never bothered to reveal the company level targets or any other parmeters while playing with employees salaries.I still remember the web cast day when all the faces became pale all were leaving the office with drooping shoulders.
    Since I experienced this first hand,I strongly recommend some mechanism from the employees should be there to address such issues.If it can be outside political spectrum then that is the best.
    Don't think that ,always the market would be up and you would be able to jump the jobs according to your wishes.If that sluggish period had continued for another couple of years,In all probablity all the other Indian employers would have followed TCS and MNCs would have started massive lay offs.
    Also all the HR-escalation mechanisms (which these companies are boasting off) are actually tooth less and face less.In the above incident the HR relpy was "My salary also got reduced,I accept it for company's sake,Why can't you guys""--:)

    I strongly recommend some mechanism (Out side this HR crap) to take up employees issues with the management .if it can be outside the political spectrum that is the best.Most of us curse the politicians almost everyday and they rightly deserve too.But the sad thing is that atleast in India , without them we can't do too much.

  • #1639

    Points:1
    Hi.. How do you think these unions are going to help you in this regard.
    I am in this sector for last 6 yrs. now. I too faced this . but what do u think u can do when market is down... its not that companies are gaining and making profit and only we are losing at that time. even they are losing.. how many people were driven to bunch. that time.? but having a union culture will help only to destroy this industry. And believe me you cant help or do anything when industry is down. even if there is a union or anything ,, I don't deny that there are issues but politics or union are not the answer for that, in fact politics/unions (as of this day) not the answer for anything. What you see in films about corrupted union leaders are not an exaggeration. its 101% true, i have realised this myself.

  • #1641

    Points:1
    HPite,

    First of all, we need to understand that none of the private companies are operating for charity. Nor are the employees working for charity. You said about TCS reducing variable pay when they felt that the employee market is down. What is wrong in that?? Why don't you see the converse of it - The employees leaving the company like crazy when they feel that the employee market is up?? This should be unethical as well, right?

    You should understand the dynamics of the market economy. Both the prices of the products and salaries of the workers are determined by the market forces. If the salaries in the market is fixed artificially, by lobbying thru the trade unions, then it will create distortions in the market and boomerang back on you.

    Hence the right approach is that if you feel that you are not getting rewarded according to your calibre then quit and look for an avenue that can reward you as per your perceived calibre. If you can't find any such avenue then your current reward is the right one. :)

  • #1642

    Points:1
    Effy and Naveen,
    Both of you didn't read the context or even I didn't highlight that properly.
    1.It was not when TCS was making loses they implemented that cut.
    2.It was not when TCS's sales was doing bad.
    3.It was not when TCS Profits were not increasing.
    Instead they done when their sales crossed to $1 billion for the first time.profits were not available to public that time since that time it was a pvt limited company.(Atleast you can guess that 30 % jump).

    All these figures were in the positive side only.It was just the job market was down and the employees (who made that company to reach 1 billion) was without other options.

    I am not of the opinion that companies should work for charity and there is nothing to wrong to link employees salary to the overall acheivement of the compnay.
    But Management can't keep some target out of their whims and fancies and punish employees using that whenever time is approprite for them.Instead there should be some representation from employees while setting up the target and let all the employees suffer or prosper according to the results.
    Here How you can have the representation?I strongly support an employees representation while setting up the organizational level goals.How you can you implement that?I don't have any specific suggestion here.But union is one of the options.

  • #1643

    Points:1
    I completely understood your point. I too didn't say that they were making losses. My point is that a private company's aim is to maximise profits. They pay a huge salary to a particular class of employees because the demand for such employees is high and the supply is less. If the supply is more and the demand is less, naturally the salaries will also come down (Irrespective of the amount of profit the company is making). Why do you say that this is unethical?

    Just see the other side of the same coin. Now the employee market is very high. You and I are earning a very good salary. But still, if a very good company offers double the salary that you are drawing now, won't you and I quit the current company and join this new company? Do you think that this is unethical?

    1.It is not when you and I are drawing pathetic salaries that we make this move.
    2.It is not when our bonuses are bad.
    3.It is not when our salary hikes are not increasing.

    If this is not unethical, then why can't the company do the same? What is wrong if the company decides to enhance the profits from 1 billion to 3 billions by laying off 50% of the employees and dropping the variable pay of the remaining employees? Won't that make the company's production more efficient?

    You can represent your case to the management by demonstrating your skills and making the management aware of the losses that the company will incur if you decide to quit. Not by demanding your 'right' to employment. You can make them realize that your labor is extremely important to the organization and that if you don't get x% increment then you are going to quit. Then there's no need of arm-twisting the employer. The company will retain you/give you a raise out of the company's self-interest.

  • #1644

    Points:1
    I'm sure that my above view will be disturbing to many. Don't let your passion subdue reason. The following is a very interesting essay by Frederic Bastiat. It will enlighten you about the economic implications of what I said. http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basEss1.html

  • #1645

    Points:1
    Effy,
    I respect your personal opinion.But I can't buy your argument.It is not because your arguments are incorrect or illogical.
    I am not here to create any level playing fields for employees and employers.
    Honestly speaking I am not so generous enough to dig my own grave for the betterment of anything in this world.
    But at the same time I am wise enough not to destroy the wall on which I am painting.
    Now On Trade Unions--

    Here In our country we all are having very scary pictures about trade unionists and they are true also.
    But you should remember one thing.Before these IT companies came up in this country have you ever heard of any matured organisations in terms of ISO ,CMMI ,TBEM.....???
    Now you can see even a petrol pump comes out with an ISO certification and all.

    Why this change has happened?Answer is simple.Coz of the booming IT Industry.
    IT companies shown the others an example and they followed.That is the reason why Process Improvements happened in TCS and Wipro IT much before Tata steel and Wipro lighting.
    Why IT done it first coz they mainly deal with first world countries and followed the practises which are there in those developed and civilized countries.

    Now back to unions.In all our mind these trade union leader is a non working person with a diary under his arms and his followers are rowdies with red head band.
    This picture is completely in contrast if you look at the first world countries.For example :Communication workers of America.If somebody goes to US on H1,All the companies are forced to give you the minimum wages.If the work force are in surplus companies are having the freedom to cut their workforce.But They can't reduce the minimum wages.
    And if any company (As TCS in India) does that You won't become a hapless individual,But CWA would be with you to take that issue up even with the US President .
    By having CWA active in that country I haven't seen any problems happened to Oracle,HP,Microsoft,Intel,Cisco....
    Now their strength is close to 700000.

    So to link all these Why can't Indian IT sector makes a world class trade union in the lines CWA so that the rest of the sectors can follow.But the big question on who can take up this challenge in our country other than politicians still remains.

  • #1646

    Points:1
    Hi. Please note that CWA is not a political union lead by CPM/Congress/BJP . Its an association of employees, professionally managed. http://www.cwa-union.org/, I don't think in that there are many politicians, who are professionals in what they do, except few.
    1. CWA doesn't forces an employee to go on strike. Its employees decision.
    2. CWA doesn't threatens employer for not giving the bonus even if the co is in loss.
    3. CWA doesn't kills or stabs an employee for not joining it.
    4. CWA doesn't do anything that our unions do and they do lot for the members and society as a whole.
    CWA office bearers are professionally qualified. How many politicians we have who are graduates. ?

  • #1647

    Points:1
    HPite,

    You don't have to dig your own grave. Market economy is just about following your self-interest(Both for the employee and the employer). You need to understand the rules of the game before taking part in it. A company, say TCS, makes profit through its business vision. Not just because of the work that we do for them. If that's the case, why do we need to work for them? We can do the business that they do and keep all the profits to ourselves, right? The companies are in no way required to share their profit with their employees. This is the way it works: TCS sells their products to their customers and makes the profit. We sell our labor to companies like TCS and get our salaries. Don't mix both. When the maket for software products is down then TCS will get lower prices for their products. The same way, when the market for software engineering labor is down then we'll get lower salaries. We demanding a part of TCS' profit is as ridiculous as TCS demanding a part of our salary. We have the choice of working for TCS or not. If TCS compels us to work for them (through unjustified bonds etc) then it is wrong.

    There's no generosity coming into picture here. You have the choice of working for them or not. What the company says is simple: "I have this work to be done. I'm willing to pay x amount for that. If it is ok with you then come in. Else don't come in. The moment we don't have any more work then your services won't be required." Is there anything unfair in this??

    If a company shares its profit with its employees then it is out of the expectation that this will motivate the employees to contribute better to their business and make more profit.

    Don't mix this with minimum wages. What we are getting is much much higher than the minimum wages(if declared). If they pass legislation for minimum wages in India then that would be less than Rs 80/- a day. There are no seperate minimum wages for different industries. Was there any time that any software company paid less than Rs 80/- a day to its employees? I support legislation for minimum wages, to a certain extent. Trade unions are not required to ensure this. If a company doesn't provide minimum wages, then that company can be sued in any court of law.

  • #1648

    Points:1
    CITU plans to enter IT field for not saving IT sector/employees, but for their existence.
    They cant save the traditional trades and cant attract much comrades in near future.
    If they are not entering into this booming market, they will be wiped out from educated brains soon. And the money behind it ofcourse...can run "Recycle bin" collection instead of traditional "bucket pirivu"...

  • #1651

    Points:1
    Effy's strong belief in market economy resembles another member of this forum's belief's in Communism.
    Both are living in their own worlds too far away from reality.
    Even the most successful market economies like US and UK also don't follow the market principles so religiously.if you leave every thing to market and sitting pretty on top of it is same as people believe that communism will make honey and milk flow through the streets.
    A sensible person should think why communism failed in all the countries and why there are lots of checks and balances in all the succesful market economies.Die hard market economists will call these checks and balances as the spokes in the market economy wheel but the reality is that with out those spokes none of these successful economies would have been these much succesful.
    Even a in highly law abiding country like US with a very speedy judiciary requires labour unions to ensure that these checks and balances are in place.

    Our basic problem with the union is the perception.Naveen pointed out that CWA is a professionaly managed union.Who is against to have a similar one here?I haven't advocated for a politiacally affiliated union.What I suggested is that in a democracy if your voices to be heard you must have a forum.Whether you call it a union or x or Y doesn't matter.
    Don't think the usage of this is only to bargain your salary with your employers.Application can be immnese .For a moment Just assume that "Communication workers of Bangalore" take up the Hosur road Traffic to Govt and do you think that Govt will ignore the voice of 3 lacs people the way they do it now???Do you think DeveGowdas will dire to speak up against a block of 3 lacs people as he does now????

  • #1652

    Points:1
    I put forward my points logically. You are welcome to refute my points logically. Comparing my points with someone else's baselessly won't take us anywhere..

    Actually speaking, the concept of minimum wage is againt the principle of market economics. But I said that I support it to a certain extent.

    I don't support trade unions because both logically as well as from my experiance in Kerala, and around the world, I've seen that they are more of a bane than a boon. Even in the capitalist countries that you talk about, these unions originated during the heydays of socialism & communism. People out there today, realize that they are counter productive.

    Please read the essay that I pointed you to, completely (Especially the first chaper and the last chapter).

    Why don't you follow logic, and tell me logically how the trade unions are going to help us in the long run? As long as we stick to logic, there can't be contradictions. You have your opinion and I have my opinion. Then how on earth will we decide who is right and who's wrong? Logic is meant for that!! So let us follow logic and subject all our thoughts to a logical/scientific validation. When we find that a certain thought is illogical, then let us have the humility to accept it and correct it. What do you say???

  • #1653

    Points:1
    Having said that, I don't mean to say that we've to remove all the checks on market economy. That'll be pure lassez faire. I do not support that.

    My point is that whenever you place a check or a restraint on the economy, then it should be logical and it should be growth oriented.

  • #1654

    Points:1
    Efby,
    You think that the whole world work on fair logic.Only an inncocent,inexperienced person can think that way.If that had worked that way all of us would have been benefitted .
    But unfortunately our beautiful world doesn't work on that way.
    And sometimes one's fair logic would be somebody's unfair logic. This forum it self is a classic example of that.
    I will site a few completely different examples.You can find numerous examples if you look around.
    1.Why countries fighting for a small piece of land and waste x times the value of the land in protecting that?
    2. Why thieves are there? Why can't they find a job according to their market value and live the way they deserve?
    3.Why Govt. Doctors living with immense wealth still squeezing the blood of those poor patients visitng those govt hospitals coz of their poverty.

    There are absolutely no FAIR logics in these three. But still these are happening.
    Let us face it. We have to live in a system. We can't make everybody thinks logically and behave or vote accordingly. Let us hope one fine day the world would be like that. Till that time you have to do lots of manipulations, maneuvering for your own benefit. Sadly in democracy nobody cares for an individual's voice, whether that is govt. or employers or even the poor auto rickshaw fellows.
    Democracy is all abt numbers and if you want to be there in the system with its full advantage you should mop up enough numbers for your community. Here I was talking on behalf of the IT community and union is one of the options to mop up those numbers.

  • #1655

    Points:1
    All the questions that you have raised have perfectly logical answers. Since they are beyond the scope of this forum, I'm not answering them.

    Are you claiming that this world is irrational? Do you believe that 'causality' is a superstition? If you believe that the world is chaotic, and logic is an illusion and there can't be a logical relationship between causes and effects then there is no point in any debate :((

    I donot expect this from a software engineer. My advise: Think and read more on chaos, order and stability of various systems.

  • #1656

    Points:1
    >>And sometimes one's fair logic would be somebody's unfair logic.
    --------------

    There can't be contradictions in a logical argument. Please understand the axiom of non-contradiction.

  • #1657

    Points:1
    I am just not an utopian to apply logic in this chaotic,corrupt ,manupulative system.
    I hope one fine day let your dreams come true and all of us benefit.Till that time let me remain highly illogical:):).
    Anyway thanks for the healthy debate.

  • #1667

    Points:1
    What you said about a professionally managed organisation of all IT employees is a good idea. We all know and agree that.
    But in India i don't think we even can dream about a CWB , who will take up the Hosur road traffic issue to the CM or Cabinet. / who will take care about the late-nite-crimes happening in the city against IT and BPO employees. ..!!

  • #1668

    Points:1
    >>I hope one fine day let your dreams come true and all of us benefit.Till that time let me remain highly illogical:):).
    ------------------

    Don't blame the system for your inablility to find logic. Logic is impersonal. 1+1 cannot give different answers to you and me. Same is the case with logic. The difference between an educated mind and an uneducated mind is that the educated mind will associate events logically. The uneducated mind will attribute those to supernatural powers.

    Order is intrinsic to any stable system. The world is a stable system. Hence the world has order. Any system with order can be studied using logic. If you are unable to find logic in a stable system, then you need to go back to your primary classes and redo your studies scientifically :(:(.

  • #1669

    Points:1
    Thanx efby for your advise.I will try to do that.
    One small doubt..Did I ask any advise from you?????

  • #1670

    Points:1
    Hey dude,

    I have no intention to advise you or evangelise you about your life in general. Take what I said only in the context of the discussion here. I advised you to stick to logic because you were taking part in the debate, by rejecting logic, which is meaningless. Then we'll just move in circles without being able to make any conclusion, which is merely a wastage of time for both you and me.

    Hence it is only in the context of this debate that I advised you to embrace logic. I don't care whether you follow logic or not in your personal life. Thatz your private matter, none of my business. :)

  • #1682

    Points:1
    In Software Industry wht i understood is that it is according a person's calibre the salary is fixed and i would never wish political people to fix our pay.

  • #1788

    Points:1
    HPite,

    I just can not agree to your reasoning why IT professionals need support from outside to ensure their salary does not get reduced. From the perspective of an average Indian, IT professionals are heavily over paid just because they happen to be in the right industry at the right time. Why on earth should an IT professional with 6 years experience be paid something like 6-10 Lakh annual salary when a civil engineer with similar experience gets around 1-2 Lakhs per year? Answer is simple and straight forward - demand and supply. When companies find it difficult to get skilled professionals, they pay you what you ask for, otherwise, you will accept what they are ready to give you.

    Minimum level of salary protection is an acceptable thing for people with very low wages - say less than Rs 5000 per month - on humanitarian considerations. But definitely not for people who are worried about salary getting reduced to 7 Lakh from 8 Lakh.

  • #1790

    Points:1
    Ajith,

    There is a common notion that the only purpose of unions is just to negotiate salary with the employers on behalf of employees.
    This concept cemented into our mindset because we couldn't get an opportunity to know how unions operate in developed countries.

    Just take the recent example.One HP employee is brutally raped and murdered.The employer is not at all apologetic about their security gaps.They didn't even admit their mistake.
    There is no talk of compensation.They unilaterally declared some security steps after having a coffee talk.All of you might be knowing how many employees will open up in front of top management.

    Here the victim's family is completely at the mercy of the employer for any kind of compensation,leave alone the loss of life.
    The irony is apart from media ,if there is anybody there to talk on her behalf it would be politicians.

    During this episode I still remember One person from Wipro management boasted about the security his company provodes for women employees and very next day another employee in anonymity told media that all their claims are nothing but blatant lies.
    Here all of our limit ends .We can talk only on anonymity.

    Here is the dire need of unions or some kind of representation from the employees whom the employers respect.For that all of us have to show our strength and unity.Else employers won't care how many of pratibhas will get raped and how many of us get looted in broad day light.

    God's grace digital media is liberalized and we have plenty of news channels.Just assume if those are also not there.

  • #1791

    Points:1
    HPite,

    In my opinion, justice should be impersonal. If a women gets raped, the rapist shall not go unpunished irrespective of whether the victim is an employee or not. To achieve this, the only solution is to strengthen the judiciary.

    Introducing unions will not help in any way. Let's analyze what will happen if there were unions. Assume that there are 3 unions in HP. Each union will try to extract as much milage as possible from this issue. They'll compete with one another to come to the limelight. Then comes strikes and lockouts to arm-twist the employer at the negotiating table. Finally the employer yields to the demands and provides the deserving compensation and security and all is well and fine. The employees realize their unlimited power to bring the employer to his knees.

    In the meantime, the call centre staff approaches the union to rid the women employees from the night shifts. Again strike/lockout and HP is forced to accept that too, despite the fact that the customers call only during the night. The women employees are kept in the payroll, without any work to do.

    Soon, an employee gets fired from HP due to non-performance. He also approaches the unions. Again an amazing opportunity for the unions to extract milege. Again lockouts, negotiations and finally, the employee is taken back.

    Then comes an economic downturn and HP wants to cut the work-force by 10%. Again strikes, lockouts and HP is forced to drop that plan.

    Eventually HP realizes that it is unprofitable to operate in India and decides to wind up the operations. The unions react by besieging the infrastructure and preventing the management from taking their servers, equipments etc. Finally at their wits end, HP abandons all the equipments and quits.

    This serves as a lesson for all the entrepreneurs who want to start their business in India and eventually India becomes an industrial graveyard.

    The root cause that we need to realize is that when the unions come into picture to guard the employees rights, there is no mechanism for a balance in power. The unions become omnipotent. The question is "Who will guard the guards". Where as, when we leave it to market forces and judiciary, there's a reasonable balance in power between the employees and the employer.

    Let us analyze what happens when we leave it to market forces. Due to the deplorable security mechanisms, people become skeptical about joining HP. Also, the existing efficient employees quit HP to join companies that provide safer work-environment to the employees. Due to the exodus of efficient employees, HP loses several important customers. Eventually HP is forced to review its security arrangements and attract fresh talent. In the meantime, the employees that got assaulted sue HP. HP loses its face internationally and attracts a bad reputation. So in the best interest of the business, HP installs a very safe work-environment.

    What do you think will benefit in the long run?

  • #1792

    Points:1
    Effy,

    First of all I am not advocating for multiple trade unions in each of the companies and various colors of flags in front of each of the offices. If that is the ONLY way to have unions better don’t have it.
    But in reality there are various ways to have a union. Again see how CWA works in US.

    If we all belong to one organization and if there is a violation from the employers on any front there would be people who can fearlessly express their opinion.

    In the given example, the # 1 culprit is the employer only. Majority of the employees know it. But people can talk only on anonymity and employers escape scot free.
    Do you think that this employer would ever be tried in India for the loss of a life?

    If the same incident happens to an American in US, how the same company would have reacted??

    As long as those dynamics are lacking in our country we have to protect ourselves.
    Individual who cares, group only matters.

    About the last portion of your posting
    -------------------------------
    Due to the deplorable security mechanisms, people become skeptical about joining HP. Also, the existing efficient employees quit HP to join companies that provide safer work-environment to the employees.
    ----------------------------------
    Since the wait is for the market to correct the employers

    1. Till that time more will get raped, murdered since company is yet to get proper signal from the market and they continue working on the same shady security.
    2. Even though they start getting signals (attrition and bla bla) they will keep on getting people as long as there is no scarcity of work force in India. Call center is a low end job and for the next 50 years I don’t see any supply problem.
    3. Finally the end result is. employees are forced to work under security threat just for their living.

    As long as those hapless are not one’s mothers/Sisters/wives/relatives he or she may be ready to wait more and more for the market to correct the culprits.
    As a true citizen I can’t accept that.

  • #1793

    Points:1
    Hpite,

    You are looking at only one aspect of what I said. I said that an efficient judiciary coupled with the market forces must take care of such incidents. You are emphasising on the market forces and discounting the judiciary.

    Instead of creating a CWA akin to that of US, isn't it better to have a judiciary as efficient or even better than theirs? If the same incident happens in the US, then HP would have been sued for millions of dollars and the responsible people would have ended up behind the bars.

    Why I don't support unions (whether single or multiple), is because with unions, the power equation changes drastically. The union will have the power to arm-twist the employer for both necessary and unnecessary things. In the example that I cited, ofcouse, the union will succeed in getting the deserving compensation to the family of the victim. At the same time, the union will also succeed in getting away with the other demands like no night shifts, salary hikes, bonuses, job security etc etc etc and eventually it will backfire on us.

    To put it succinctly, assume that HP has a trade union. Is there anything that can stop it from demanding a 50% hike to all the employees? If they make that demand, then is there anything that the management can do not to give it? The answer to both the questions is No. If the management grants that then is there anything that can stop the union from demanding another 50% hike? That's why I said that the union will seriously affect the power equations to the detriment of both the parties in the long run.

    About the last portion of your posting:

    If you are a true citizen then you'd offer any assistance to the victims to bring the culprits under law. You will not welcome a mongoose to kill the snake that eats the birds eggs, only to take the place of the snake and continue eating the eggs. With union, you'll succeed in getting proper security systems installed in the short run and prevent the rape of one's mothers/Sisters/wives/relatives. But in the long run the same one'll see his mothers/Sisters/wives/relatives selling their body for a square meal (As you see in the old communist citadels).

    Don't let the short term gains lure you into long term disasters.

  • #1794

    Points:1
    You are demonizing the unions like anything.I agree they are not angels but they are not as bas as you think.
    NTPC,ONGC,SAIL,even our FACT has unions.Has any of the unions there asked for 50% hike.
    If they haven't done why one should think that the future union in HP would do that.
    NTPC has unions both for workers and for engineers.All of them have political leanings.
    One of my friends is working there and it is a mandatory for every engineers to attend the plant regardless of the time of the call.Everybody working in NTPC follow this.
    This is one of the good example of a healthy trade union.
    If they can have a good one ,IT workers can have a better one.

    About the judiciary ,make that fast and efficient is not in our hands and above all each of us can't contribute too much for that cause.
    So Instead of waiting for that golden era to come with an efficient judiciary and all the rights activists in place, better it is the time to bulid a platform to speak out the reality.

    I am leaving for Hartal's on country today.Who knows how many hartals would be there in the coming week.Wishing all of you a very happy and Prosperous 2006.

  • #1795

    Points:1
    You are taking the case that I cited literally instead of answering the point that I raised through that example. The point that I tried to make with that example is that if a union is powerful then there is nothing to counterbalance its power. Where as in case of market forces, the opposing forces will reach an equilibrium. Eg: The employer will try to extract maximum labor from the employee for minimum wage. The employee, on the contrary, will try to extract maximum wage for every iota of labor that he puts in. These are two opposing forces. The wages are set based on the equilibrium between these two forces. Rather, there are two equally powerful forces to counterbalance the equation. Due to these opposing forces, the wages can neither rise arbitrarily high nor arbitrarily low.

    On the contrary, if you have powerful unions then it tilts the power equation in the favor of employees artificially to any extent based on the power of the union. This enhances the cost of production artificially. This causes the labor of the employees to be priced above the market, causing the profit margin to decline artificially. This discourages the entreprenuers from starting new businesses and continuing the existing businesses. This reduces the employment opportunities of the people. This in turn reduces their purchasing power and inturn reduces the demand for various commodities. This reduces the profit margin even further. This vicious cycle will eventually impoverish the whole society.

    Even in companies like NTPC, ONGC etc, if the trade unions see any action which they perceive as against their interests, they'll unleash strikes and lockouts. If you really don't know about the strikes that these unions have made for pay hikes etc, please let me know. I'll provide you the links.

    When you condemn the hartals etc, please spare a moment to analyze what is the root cause. You cannot sail in two boats at the same time. Wish you a merry Christmas and happy New Year.

  • #1796

    Points:1
    hi
    I strongly dis agree. Our chotta netas just like a KID. we need to feed them, care them, and provide what ever they want when they cry.
    Only problem is that they are not growing with time...


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